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Re: two palms

UZ
Ulf Zibis
Tue, Mar 7, 2023 9:28 PM

Am 07.03.23 um 21:50 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 15:10, Ulf Zibis wrote:

Am 07.03.23 um 17:27 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

IIRC jpilot would do a sync first and if there was a change on computer
2 it would get written to the Palm.  Then backup will create a dir
~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy and backup everything to there and then copies
the 4 main apps and puts them in ~/.jpilot.

So in the end the databases of the 4 apps in ~/.jpilot are exact duplicates of the ones in ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy, right?

I guess you mean the databases of the 4 apps, not themselves.
So "Backup" is only a real backup if there are made no changes from JPilot's side, right?

Yes, it backs up the apps and the databases, but it does not back up the
apps that are in the ROM, like the 4 main apps.

It is a real backup.

Yes, a real backup after sync, but not a real backup of the Palm status before sync, if there are unflagged changes on the Palm (e.g. as result from sync with another desktop instance).

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

-Ulf

Am 07.03.23 um 21:50 schrieb Judd Montgomery: > On 3/7/23 15:10, Ulf Zibis wrote: >> Am 07.03.23 um 17:27 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >>> IIRC jpilot would do a sync first and if there was a change on computer >>> 2 it would get written to the Palm.  Then backup will create a dir >>> ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy and backup everything to there and then copies >>> the 4 main apps and puts them in ~/.jpilot. So in the end the databases of the 4 apps in ~/.jpilot are exact duplicates of the ones in ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy, right? >> I guess you mean the databases of the 4 apps, not themselves. >> So "Backup" is only a real backup if there are made no changes from JPilot's side, right? > Yes, it backs up the apps and the databases, but it does not back up the > apps that are in the ROM, like the 4 main apps. > > It is a real backup. Yes, a real backup after sync, but not a real backup of the Palm status before sync, if there are unflagged changes on the Palm (e.g. as result from sync with another desktop instance). I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. -Ulf
UZ
ulf.zibis@cosoco.de
Fri, Mar 10, 2023 3:37 PM

Hi Judd,

I’m missing a statement to this message.

Hi Judd, I’m missing a statement to this message.
JM
Judd Montgomery
Fri, Mar 10, 2023 7:28 PM

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

Am 07.03.23 um 21:50 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 15:10, Ulf Zibis wrote:

Am 07.03.23 um 17:27 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

IIRC jpilot would do a sync first and if there was a change on computer
2 it would get written to the Palm.  Then backup will create a dir
~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy and backup everything to there and then copies
the 4 main apps and puts them in ~/.jpilot.

So in the end the databases of the 4 apps in ~/.jpilot are exact duplicates of the ones in ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy, right?

From what I recall,l yes.

I guess you mean the databases of the 4 apps, not themselves.
So "Backup" is only a real backup if there are made no changes from JPilot's side, right?

Yes, it backs up the apps and the databases, but it does not back up the
apps that are in the ROM, like the 4 main apps.

It is a real backup.

Yes, a real backup after sync, but not a real backup of the Palm status before sync, if there are unflagged changes on the Palm (e.g. as result from sync with another desktop instance).

Yes.

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

What about other apps, people expecting the same behavior as its been
for 25 years?  Pilot-xfer can always be used to do whatever a user would
want to do, in this case pull down databases that may contain dirty records.

Judd

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: > Am 07.03.23 um 21:50 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >> On 3/7/23 15:10, Ulf Zibis wrote: >>> Am 07.03.23 um 17:27 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >>>> IIRC jpilot would do a sync first and if there was a change on computer >>>> 2 it would get written to the Palm.  Then backup will create a dir >>>> ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy and backup everything to there and then copies >>>> the 4 main apps and puts them in ~/.jpilot. > So in the end the databases of the 4 apps in ~/.jpilot are exact duplicates of the ones in ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy, right? From what I recall,l yes. > >>> I guess you mean the databases of the 4 apps, not themselves. >>> So "Backup" is only a real backup if there are made no changes from JPilot's side, right? >> Yes, it backs up the apps and the databases, but it does not back up the >> apps that are in the ROM, like the 4 main apps. >> >> It is a real backup. > Yes, a real backup after sync, but not a real backup of the Palm status before sync, if there are unflagged changes on the Palm (e.g. as result from sync with another desktop instance). Yes. > > I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. > And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. What about other apps, people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?  Pilot-xfer can always be used to do whatever a user would want to do, in this case pull down databases that may contain dirty records. Judd
UZ
Ulf Zibis
Sun, Mar 12, 2023 9:38 PM

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

What about other apps,

I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled.

people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?

Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Much thanks for your answers.

-Ulf

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery: > On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: >> I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. >> And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. > What about other apps, I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled. > people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years? Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help. And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. Much thanks for your answers. -Ulf
JT
John Towler
Wed, Mar 15, 2023 8:28 AM

Hi Judd,

Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance.

Thanks.


From: Ulf Zibis Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de
Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38
To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
Subject: [jp] Re: two palms

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

What about other apps,

I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled.

people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?

Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Much thanks for your answers.

-Ulf


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org

Hi Judd, Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance. Thanks. ________________________________ From: Ulf Zibis <Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de> Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38 To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org <jpilot@lists.jpilot.org> Subject: [jp] Re: two palms Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery: > On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: >> I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. >> And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. > What about other apps, I think, Palm Desktop does real backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled. > people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years? Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help. And then the tooltip of the button should change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. Much thanks for your answers. -Ulf _______________________________________________ Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org
JM
Judd Montgomery
Wed, Mar 15, 2023 3:37 PM

Hi John,

I considered trying to help and have not had the time to get to this yet
and can't guaranty that I will.  If I did it might end up being a
situation where I say "It works for me" and we still don't know why.  In
the meantime have you looked around for help on a virtualbox support
forum/reddit or somewhere?

Judd

On 3/15/23 04:28, John Towler wrote:

Hi Judd,

Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance.

Thanks.


From: Ulf Zibis Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de
Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38
To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
Subject: [jp] Re: two palms

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

What about other apps,

I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled.

people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?

Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Much thanks for your answers.

-Ulf


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org

Hi John, I considered trying to help and have not had the time to get to this yet and can't guaranty that I will.  If I did it might end up being a situation where I say "It works for me" and we still don't know why.  In the meantime have you looked around for help on a virtualbox support forum/reddit or somewhere? Judd On 3/15/23 04:28, John Towler wrote: > Hi Judd, > > Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance. > > Thanks. > ________________________________ > From: Ulf Zibis <Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de> > Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38 > To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org <jpilot@lists.jpilot.org> > Subject: [jp] Re: two palms > > > Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >> On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: >>> I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. >>> And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. >> What about other apps, > I think, Palm Desktop does real backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled. >> people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years? > Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help. > And then the tooltip of the button should change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. > > Much thanks for your answers. > > -Ulf > _______________________________________________ > Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org > _______________________________________________ > Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org
JT
John Towler
Fri, Mar 17, 2023 3:06 AM

Hi Judd,

I will try reddit but other forums have not been much help. Please note that if you do not run Ubuntu 20.04 or later then it works fine. Up to 20.04 I could run Palm Desktop in a virtual machine, virtualbox, and sync without problem. I've also tried other VM managers, VMware and KVM, and they don't work either. I really appreciate you still having me in mind and will wait patiently to hear from you.

Many thanks, John Towler


From: Judd Montgomery judd@jpilot.org
Sent: 15 March 2023 15:37
To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
Subject: [jp] Re: two palms

Hi John,

I considered trying to help and have not had the time to get to this yet
and can't guaranty that I will.  If I did it might end up being a
situation where I say "It works for me" and we still don't know why.  In
the meantime have you looked around for help on a virtualbox support
forum/reddit or somewhere?

Judd

On 3/15/23 04:28, John Towler wrote:

Hi Judd,

Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance.

Thanks.


From: Ulf Zibis Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de
Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38
To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
Subject: [jp] Re: two palms

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after.

What about other apps,

I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled.

people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?

Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Much thanks for your answers.

-Ulf


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org


Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org
To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org

Hi Judd, I will try reddit but other forums have not been much help. Please note that if you do not run Ubuntu 20.04 or later then it works fine. Up to 20.04 I could run Palm Desktop in a virtual machine, virtualbox, and sync without problem. I've also tried other VM managers, VMware and KVM, and they don't work either. I really appreciate you still having me in mind and will wait patiently to hear from you. Many thanks, John Towler ________________________________ From: Judd Montgomery <judd@jpilot.org> Sent: 15 March 2023 15:37 To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org <jpilot@lists.jpilot.org> Subject: [jp] Re: two palms Hi John, I considered trying to help and have not had the time to get to this yet and can't guaranty that I will. If I did it might end up being a situation where I say "It works for me" and we still don't know why. In the meantime have you looked around for help on a virtualbox support forum/reddit or somewhere? Judd On 3/15/23 04:28, John Towler wrote: > Hi Judd, > > Just wondered if you had considered my request for help getting Palm Desktop running in a virtual Windows machine to sync with my palm m515. If this is of no interest or you know don't know anyone who might help then please let me know. I realise this does not directly concern your software so my apologies in advance. > > Thanks. > ________________________________ > From: Ulf Zibis <Ulf.Zibis@CoSoCo.de> > Sent: 12 March 2023 21:38 > To: jpilot@lists.jpilot.org <jpilot@lists.jpilot.org> > Subject: [jp] Re: two palms > > > Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >> On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: >>> I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, so the user would have the choice, which to do first. >>> And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot side after. >> What about other apps, > I think, Palm Desktop does real backup of te Palm statut if the concerning setting is enabled. >> people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years? > Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help. > And then the tooltip of the button should change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. > > Much thanks for your answers. > > -Ulf > _______________________________________________ > Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org > _______________________________________________ > Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org _______________________________________________ Jpilot mailing list -- jpilot@lists.jpilot.org To unsubscribe send an email to jpilot-leave@lists.jpilot.org
UZ
Ulf Zibis
Fri, Mar 17, 2023 4:51 PM

Am 17.03.23 um 04:06 schrieb John Towler:

Hi Judd,

I will try reddit but other forums have not been much help. Please note that if you do not run Ubuntu 20.04 or later then it works fine. Up to 20.04 I could run Palm Desktop in a virtual machine, virtualbox, and sync without problem. I've also tried other VM managers, VMware and KVM, and they don't work either. I really appreciate you still having me in mind and will wait patiently to hear from you.

Many thanks, John Towler

Hi John,

have you tried to run with WineHQ?

Why you prefer Palm Desktop over JPilot?

-Ulf

Am 17.03.23 um 04:06 schrieb John Towler: > Hi Judd, > > I will try reddit but other forums have not been much help. Please note that if you do not run Ubuntu 20.04 or later then it works fine. Up to 20.04 I could run Palm Desktop in a virtual machine, virtualbox, and sync without problem. I've also tried other VM managers, VMware and KVM, and they don't work either. I really appreciate you still having me in mind and will wait patiently to hear from you. > > Many thanks, John Towler Hi John, have you tried to run with WineHQ? Why you prefer Palm Desktop over JPilot? -Ulf
JM
Judd Montgomery
Sat, Mar 18, 2023 5:00 PM

On 3/12/23 17:38, Ulf Zibis wrote:

Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before,
so the user would have the choice, which to do first.
And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if
"Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to
~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot
side after.

What about other apps,

I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the
concerning setting is enabled.

people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years?

Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as
default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure
backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Is there a use case for this?

Judd

On 3/12/23 17:38, Ulf Zibis wrote: > > Am 10.03.23 um 20:28 schrieb Judd Montgomery: >> On 3/7/23 16:28, Ulf Zibis wrote: >>> I think it would be better, if "Backup" would not do a sync before, >>> so the user would have the choice, which to do first. >>> And additionally I think, it could be an interesting idea, if >>> "Backup" would only copy to ~/.jpilot/backupmmddyyyy but not to >>> ~/.jpilot, so the user could do a sync from the changes on JPilot >>> side after. >> What about other apps, > I think, Palm Desktop does real  backup of te Palm statut if the > concerning setting is enabled. >> people expecting the same behavior as its been for 25 years? > > Good point. I think, an additional setting with old behavior as > default could help. > And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure > backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. Is there a use case for this? Judd
UZ
Ulf Zibis
Sun, Mar 19, 2023 8:05 PM

Am 18.03.23 um 18:00 schrieb Judd Montgomery:

On 3/12/23 17:38, Ulf Zibis wrote:

I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help.
And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on.

Is there a use case for this?

In the past I had different reasons to rely on Palm desktop, so I preferred to first do a sync with it and then after "Backup" with JPilot (if possible). So I couldn't use the "Sync"-function of JPilot and therefore couldn't do any data changes within JPilot, to sync them back to the Palm. The bottom line was, that I used JPilot only as experiment.
The reasons to rely on Palm desktop in the first place:

  • I wasn't sure, if I can rely on JPilot in general, especially if it would come the the restore case.
  • There was a time, JPilot was not installable on Ubuntu > 18.04
  • JPilot didn't sync Pictures, Videos etc.
  • A day, my old Palm Treo 650 was broken, so I tried JPilot to restore the data back to another used Treo 650. Then I experienced a lot of files, where is was asked if I want to overwrite them or not, and I was overburdened to decide right.

So in short, the use case is to backup the Palm status when there was a sync before with Palm Desktop and I'm not sure, if I had made data changes within JPilot (which I then accept to be discarded).

-Ulf

Am 18.03.23 um 18:00 schrieb Judd Montgomery: > On 3/12/23 17:38, Ulf Zibis wrote: >> >> I think, an additional setting with old behavior as default could help. >> And then the tooltip of the button should  change to: "Only pure backup, no sync before." So people know what's going on. > > Is there a use case for this? In the past I had different reasons to rely on Palm desktop, so I preferred to first do a sync with it and then after "Backup" with JPilot (if possible). So I couldn't use the "Sync"-function of JPilot and therefore couldn't do any data changes within JPilot, to sync them back to the Palm. The bottom line was, that I used JPilot only as experiment. The reasons to rely on Palm desktop in the first place: - I wasn't sure, if I can rely on JPilot in general, especially if it would come the the restore case. - There was a time, JPilot was not installable on Ubuntu > 18.04 - JPilot didn't sync Pictures, Videos etc. - A day, my old Palm Treo 650 was broken, so I tried JPilot to restore the data back to another used Treo 650. Then I experienced a lot of files, where is was asked if I want to overwrite them or not, and I was overburdened to decide right. So in short, the use case is to backup the Palm status when there was a sync before with Palm Desktop and I'm not sure, if I had made data changes within JPilot (which I then accept to be discarded). -Ulf